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The Leader welcomed Mrs
Sue Heavens who had submitted a question under Section 3 of the
Executive Procedure Rules regarding ThamesWey
businesses.  Four further questions had
been submitted by members of public regarding public rubbish bins
and Greenfield School loan.  A copy of the questions together with the replies
was before the Executive.  The Leader
advised that the members of public unable to attend the meeting
would be sent a copy of the replies to their questions.  The questions, together with the replies from the
Leader and Portfolio Holder, were presented as follows:
Question 1 from Sarah
Madden
“Please could the council provide more public rubbish
bins?  Particularly in locations
emanating from the station and where taxi drivers stop for their
rest.”
Supporting Statement
“I
collect litter every couple of days in my area.  The area which is usually very bad is the parking
bays area on Park Road outside The Park School.”

Reply from Councillor Ellen Nicholson
“Thank you Sarah for your question and thank very much for
your efforts in litter picking. I am one of your Ward Councillors
in Mount Hermon which contains Park School and I know a number of
residents across the Borough voluntarily help to keep our area
clean and tidy and we are very appreciative of that. I would be
very happy to meet with you and discuss where a bin might possibly
be located on Park Road near to the School. I will also write to
local taxi companies and their associations to ask the drivers to
dispose of their rubbish responsibly. We could also look into
whether Ward Councillors and the Woking Litter Warriors, or a
similar group, may wish to do a litter pick in the area or if local
residents might like to get together for a community litter pick a
few times a year, and we can facilitate this through Neighbourhood
Services.”
Question 2 from (name
withheld)
“Ultra vires loan{s}
Will the
Council set-up an independent enquiry into the extraordinary use of
taxpayers’ money into the loan to the single entity,
Greenfield preparatory school?”
Supporting Statement
“The transaction is not a regeneration project nor is it
being undertaken in a regeneration area.  As everyone knows, State school funding, never
mind funding of a private school, is not in the remit of a BC., so
why did past officers of Woking BC. and past elected Conservative
Woking councillors jointly authorise this high-risk loan{s}, on
such generous terms that's not available elsewhere in the
market?  Was Woking BC totally honest
with UK Treasury in this whole matter?”

Reply from Councillor Ann-Marie Barker
“In
July 2023, the Council asked Grant Thornton, its newly appointed
external auditors, to undertake a ‘Value for Money’
review, looking into the governance arrangements that relate to the
Council’s historic investment strategy. This is an
independent report which is reviewing how past decisions (such as
those related to Greenfield School) were made and the financial
impact of these decisions on the Council’s financial
sustainability.
Grant
Thornton have indicated that the Value for Money report will likely
be published in October 2024. The Council
will make the Value for Money review report, alongside our response
to its recommendations, available on our website at the earliest
opportunity. It is important to wait for the findings of the
independent review before coming to any conclusions regarding
individual decisions.”
Question 3 from (name
withheld)
“Competition issue
What
advice did past officers of Woking BC. and past elected
Conservative Woking councillors take to ensure the Council did not
fall foul of competition rules when making its high-risk loan{s} on
such generous terms to Greenfield preparatory school in 2021 and
will the Council commit to finding solutions to these
issues?”
Supporting Statement
“Cumulative damage continues to be done to others
operating in the independent market in and around
Woking.”

Reply from Councillor Ann-Marie Barker
“To
date no evidence has been found of advice being taken. As stated in
answer to your previous question the Grant Thornton report is
looking into previous decisions of the Council and we await their
report before any further decisions are taken.”
Question 4 from (name
withheld)
“What was the level of due diligence undertaken prior to
granting loans to Greenfield prep school?”
Supporting Statement
“Why did the Council not look into why the school did not
approach a bank for a loan....Why did Woking BC authorise the loan
without looking into what are normal lending terms for borrowers in
this sector {e.g. asset cover, loan duration, operating
profit/interest and outstanding loans/ student number ratios
etc.}?  Why did Woking BC not seek a
specialist valuer's advice as to how to value a single prep school
business or request a commercial due diligence report to assess the
business risks for operators in this sector?”

Reply from Councillor Ann-Marie Barker
“As
stated in answer to your previous question the Grant Thornton
report is looking into previous decisions of the Council and we
await their report before any further decisions are
taken.”
Question 5 from Sue
Heavens
“How will ongoing losses of the council's loss-making
Thameswey businesses be funded? Have Thameswey businesses been
gifted council-owned houses to sell to cover ongoing
losses?”
Supporting Statement
“Following the declaration of effective bankruptcy in June
2023, Woking council took decisive action to cut its staffing and
expenditure to align core activities with regular income. However,
no announcements have been made regarding Woking council’s
loss-making businesses. Thameswey Central Milton Keynes and
Thameswey Energy Limited have consistently lost money since their
inception and Thameswey Housing has amassed an insurmountable level
of debt.
I believe
the council should put the interests of tax-payers first and exit
these loss-making businesses without delay, while placing future
construction projects in the hands of short-listed private sector
firms through competitive tenders. (Council-owned Thameswey Housing
could not compete fairly in a competitive tender awarded by the
council.)
While the
council continues to own these businesses, tax-payers continue to
be exposed to the significant risk of further losses. Thameswey
reported losses of £37.2 million for the 15 month period
ending March 2023. This question explores how the council will fund
ongoing business losses, and in particular whether Thameswey will
be allowed to consume the value of housing stock.”

Reply from Councillor Ann-Marie Barker
“Thank you very much for your question Sue, and Sue does
mention in her supporting statement about the measures the
Council took within the Council directly over the last year
following the Section 114 and the Government
intervention.  In my response I would
like to say that alongside cost and staff reductions to balance the
budget Woking Borough Council is working to solutions for Council
owned companies.
Following
statutory government intervention and the issuing of a Section 114
Notice in the Spring of 2023, the Council was required to put in
place an Improvement and Recovery Plan. The Improvement and
Recovery Plan (IRP) outlines the actions the Council will undertake
to help ensure the Council achieves financial sustainability and
returns to delivering its best value duty.
Commercial arrangements, including council companies, is a key
workstream of the Improvement and Recovery Plan. This workstream
aims to release the Council from unaffordable commitments, whilst
protecting the public purse and optimising the value of existing
assets.
Work has
taken place across the last year to strengthen company governance
and develop outline company business plans, which will enable the
Council to take informed and evidence-based decisions regarding
their future operation. The draft outline business cases are due to
be considered by the Council’s Shareholder Executive
Committee in November, with final outline business cases being
considered in January 2025.
ThamesWey
is completing the phase of Sheerwater that was already in train at
the point of the government intervention and Section 114 Notice.
This phase will be complete early in 2025 and the Council has
already announced that the remaining land for development in
Sheerwater will be sold to private developers. WBC has not given
houses to ThamesWey for the purpose of sale to generate
income.”
Mrs
Heavens was thanked for her question and invited to ask a
supplementary question.
Supplementary Question from Sue
Heavens
“Yes I have got a selection, I will pick one.  So the first question was about funding
losses.  ThamesWey reported losses of
£37 million for the 15 month period ending March 2023, its
last published report. The Council's businesses have therefore the
potential to lose more than the Council's entire core
funding.  £19 million, I think,
for 24-25.  So last time they lost
£37 million in 15 months. So it seems to me that they
represent a very high level of risk exposure to taxpayers. In the
past, Woking Council has chosen to fund 100% of its businesses
because it wants to keep 100% of the profits.  But that means taxpayers are exposed to 100% of
the business risks, and they have to bear 100% of the losses. So
the question is, does the Council still believe its in the best
interest of taxpayers to take 100% of the business
risk?  Is the Council open to running
competitive tenders to allow successful private sector companies to
operate Council projects, sharing the risk by putting in their own
funds at risk in the projects for a share of the
profits?”

Reply from Councillor Ann-Marie Barker
“Thank you for that.  So you
are absolutely right, the huge amounts invested in both Council
companies and in other commercial ventures very much dwarf the core
income of the Council.  As you've sort
of highlighted in the summary to your original question, a lot of
the Council's efforts in the last year have been about getting the
core budget of the Council, the day to day spending of the Council,
getting that on track. We are obviously looking to Government as to
how we might manage that huge level of overhanging debt that we
have, which includes some of the borrowing for the
companies.  There's a huge amount of
risk exposure there, and it's all because of the approach taken in
the past, where Woking Council often took 100% of the risk looking
for the ultimate profits I guess, at the end of the day.
I think
we've indicated already with the work we've done in Sheerwater, it
was obviously very clear that ThamesWey could not complete that
project, but it did make sense for ThamesWey to complete the phase
that was in construction at the time of the Government intervention
and Section 114.  But we are now looking
to sell the land for others to develop there.
As I
mentioned in my earlier reply, we're looking to the companies to
come up with business plans and we're looking at what the future
might be for all of those companies.  I
think it's going to be absolutely key for us to get those companies
working and operating well.  As I
mentioned earlier, getting the governance practices in
place.  We've got the oversight of the
companies in a much better place now with the Shareholder Executive
Committee in place. And we would be considering a range of options
as to what happens to those companies in the future. We'll be
looking to share that with the public as we get closer to making
decisions about the future of council companies.”
The deadline for written
questions from members of the public was 12 noon, seven days before
the Executive.  The next Executive would
be held on 14 November 2024, so the deadline for written questions
was 12 noon, 7 November 2024.